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Author Topic: The Uncomfortable Truth  (Read 5423 times)
MakeMoneyBtc
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June 02, 2019, 01:31:38 PM
 #21

Just take a look around the forum and the threads that are created here. Most of the people are talking about the price of bitcoin and share predictions over it. There is no wonder bitcoin is not used that much for payments since everyone is talking about it as an investment. I remember when i discovered bitcoin and i tried to search on the internet informations about it. The majority of articles i could find related to bitcoin were explaining how to buy and sell bitcoin to make a profit .
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June 02, 2019, 01:33:53 PM
 #22

It's a truth, no doubt, and in my opinion, it's a fact everyone should be worried
We all trust and BTC and wish to have a mass adoption, if companies starts to accept BTC and nobody uses, they will stop the support and there is a risk for BTC

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June 02, 2019, 01:50:59 PM
 #23

I wonder what Bloomberg is trying to prove here. Let's compare NASDAQ's Forex Market Overview:
The foreign exchange market is the most actively traded market in the world. More than $5 trillion are traded on average every day. By comparison, this volume exceeds global equities trading volumes by 25 times.
It sounds like Bloomberg is making up a reason why Bitcoin wouldn't be money. They could write a similar article about fiat: "only 4% of economic transactions came from merchants".

Personally, I would rather hold my bitcoin that spend it because I am looking forward that soon it can go beyond the $20,000 (or almost) reached in 2017. I am sure that am not alone with this mindset right now.
If that would be the reason to hold on to Bitcoin, traders wouldn't sell it either. But they do buy and sell all the time.
The thing that restricts me in using Bitcoin is the low acceptance, I use Bitcoin to pay whenever I can, but unfortunately that's not very often. Once more merchants accept Bitcoin, I'll use it more often.

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June 02, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
 #24

If you wanna see BTC in a mass adoption we all have to spend it
The circle has to be started
I’m spending my crypto whenever and wherever I can

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June 02, 2019, 05:00:17 PM
 #25

The term use can be understood in many ways.
If I'm trading it am I using it?
If I'm treating it as a long term store of value am I using it?
If I'm getting paid for signature advertising am I using it?
If I'm paying my friends with it am I using it?
If I'm gambling with it am I using it?

If noone is using it am I noone? Cheesy

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June 02, 2019, 05:07:29 PM
 #26


Among the crypto investors, majority of them treat it primarily as an asset and secondarily as a currency due to the monetary opportunities available which is something that will be reversed only through higher adoption rates which in turn requires low TX fees, faster payment speeds etc.

Definitely, people in the crypto ecosystem not only investors regard and see Bitcoin as an asset rather than a digital currency. Considering the current state of the crypto market, majority are hodling their Bitcoin rather than using them for their online transactions due to recent increase of the value of it. This nature of people in the crypto space is actual reason why Bitcoin can be hardly considered as a currency.
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June 02, 2019, 05:15:02 PM
 #27


Bitcoin as we know it is supposed to be utilized like money for everyday transactions but aside from this, just like the physical gold, it is mostly known as a store of value that can increase and decrease suddenly in a matter of some blinks of the eyes (well, literally and figuratively).
Personally, I would rather hold my bitcoin that spend it because I am looking forward that soon it can go beyond the $20,000 (or almost) reached in 2017. I am sure that am not alone with this mindset right now.

Is there really something wrong with this scenario for bitcoin?
This is indeed truth not everyone accepts. Yes, Bitcoin is supposed to be money, and no, it mostly is not. And a big obstacle I see here is whenever the market gets bullish, the transactions get stuck and the fees go way up. I mean, when you have to pay some cents, you can buy groceries at least potentially, but if you'll have to pay 5 dollars for food worth 15 dollars - well, that's a big problem. I am also holding most of my Bitcoin for now, but if the price becomes relatively stable, and there's an option to pay with btc for everyday stuff with low fees - I am all for it.

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June 02, 2019, 05:16:03 PM
 #28


......

Personally, I would rather hold my bitcoin that spend it because I am looking forward that soon it can go beyond the $20,000 (or almost) reached in 2017. I am sure that am not alone with this mindset right now.

Is there really something wrong with this scenario for bitcoin?

agreed, i have the same attitude like you. I hold my btc for longterm. to get "involved" and give companies a reason to accept bitcoin as a payment method i spend some rewards of my masternodes or pos coins. not that much but better than holding everything and don't use it Wink

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June 02, 2019, 07:20:49 PM
 #29

It's just normal for a new technology, bitcoin is fairly young, like 10 years so we have some growing pains along the way, like not being adopted by online merchants because of its volatility. So right now people prefer to hodl into it, as a speculative asset and nothing more. LN introduction and adoption could be a good thing specially those micro-transactions, but we will see, as I've said we are in the early stages so there will be a lot of challenges.

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June 02, 2019, 08:20:04 PM
 #30

This is the awry truth, but numbers don't lie and we see that on the blockchain and exchanges. People use bitcoin but just not as a currency, so the headline is somewhat inappropriate to describe what bitcoin really is (and the whole article as well.) Also, given the highly speculative nature of bitcoin, it's just common sense that merchants and services would be avoiding it to use as a payment method. Most want to take profits directly and only the large companies can take in such gamble, so yeah.

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June 02, 2019, 08:30:46 PM
 #31


Personally, I would rather hold my bitcoin that spend it because I am looking forward that soon it can go beyond the $20,000 (or almost) reached in 2017. I am sure that am not alone with this mindset right now.

Is there really something wrong with this scenario for bitcoin?

I don't believe that anything is wrong with it. In the current state of Bitcoin that primary use is precisely the best possible use to be brutally honest, for now. Those like me still want to use it to buy stuffs, even sometimes. Which is perfectly fine and in fact helps a lot in another way that not that many is doing right now.

Well, it's too soon for trading your btc into money, I'm also waiting for BTC to reach it 20,000$. That bull run in 2017 is history and we're in the reality that it's not very easy to achieve again. I'm still hoping on bitcoin and I know that it will urge more power in the future, in fact, it's made up of technology, once the technology keeps getting stronger, the bitcoin will get strong too.

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June 02, 2019, 09:29:38 PM
 #32

I don't find the truth or facts to be uncomfortable and there's nothing wrong about the current situation. Also I have doubts on the chart shown by chainlaysis being accurate. The reason why I have doubts is because some exchanges could have additional services where people could spend their Bitcoin and others could do merchant transactions on  exchanges (if an exchange have a transfer option).  

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June 03, 2019, 08:55:00 AM
 #33

The term use can be understood in many ways.
If I'm trading it am I using it?
If I'm treating it as a long term store of value am I using it?
If I'm getting paid for signature advertising am I using it?
If I'm paying my friends with it am I using it?
If I'm gambling with it am I using it?

If noone is using it am I noone? Cheesy

Nobody argued about usage, they argued what % of all the transactions are made to actually buy stuff.
And it seems the title was pretty much spot on!

I wonder what Bloomberg is trying to prove here. Let's compare NASDAQ's Forex Market Overview:
The foreign exchange market is the most actively traded market in the world. More than $5 trillion are traded on average every day. By comparison, this volume exceeds global equities trading volumes by 25 times.
It sounds like Bloomberg is making up a reason why Bitcoin wouldn't be money. They could write a similar article about fiat: "only 4% of economic transactions came from merchants".

And I'm going to open a beer cause this is a one in a thousand post I don't agree even 1.3% with LoyceV.

The example you gave is internal trade on the stock market, just like our bitcoin/altcoin exchanges.
The article is talking about 1.3% of the tx ON the blockchain being from consumers to merchants.

Let's do this the other way around.
Let's say that customer to merchant transactions are only 1.3% of all money transfer in the world, cards, wires,pp.
What would the rest of 98.7% be?  Grin Grin Grin
Personal transactions for relatives? Sending money to the stock market? (lols) Deposits? Sending money to your safe?  Grin Grin

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June 03, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
 #34

Bitcoin was created as an alternative means of payment for the existing payment systems. It should be recognized that as long as it does not fully fulfill its purpose, it is more used as a means of accumulating value. So far, this is explained by the fact that, on the one hand, its holders are still expecting a significant increase in the price of Bitcoin, and on the other, Bitcoin and another cryptocurrency are still slowly legalized by the states and infrastructure is being created for its practical use as a means of payment.
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June 03, 2019, 09:20:23 AM
 #35

Let's do this the other way around.
Let's say that customer to merchant transactions are only 1.3% of all money transfer in the world, cards, wires,pp.
What would the rest of 98.7% be?  Grin Grin Grin
Personal transactions for relatives? Sending money to the stock market? (lols) Deposits? Sending money to your safe?  Grin Grin
I'm confused Tongue I already mentioned it's forex trading, so euro > dollar > whatever > euro > circle > around > dollar. That's the large majority of fiat money transfers. Why would that be any different than dollar > bitcoin > dollar?

Maybe you mean the number of transactions, then indeed I have no idea how many transactions are used for 5 trillion worth of forex trading per day. Automated systems could make billions of trades, or it could be just a "few".

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June 03, 2019, 09:22:07 AM
 #36

It's not surprising at all, Bitcoin and the whole crypto market are just at the beginning; but every year more and more people are buying Bitcoin. To add Bitcoin is not really currency for dayli use, there are more suitable currencies for that.

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June 03, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
 #37

I'm confused  Tongue I already mentioned it's forex trading, so euro > dollar > whatever > euro > circle > around > dollar. That's the large majority of fiat money transfers. Why would that be any different than dollar > bitcoin > dollar?

By value, but not by percentage.
And most of those happen in the forex market, just like exchanges bitcoin>shitcoin1>shitcoin2>shitcoin3>bitcoin happen off chain and were not included in the percentage the article mentions.

Maybe you mean the number of transactions, then indeed I have no idea how many transactions are used for 5 trillion worth of forex trading per day. Automated systems could make billions of trades, or it could be just a "few".

Nope, that was not my point.

The article quotes 1.3% as in the number of transactions used for consumers>merchants out of the 400k or so we see daily in the blockchain.
The rest is made out of deposits and withdraws from exchanges, mining and others.

I don't have a clue about the numbers forex activities are generating, but the average American is doing 3 transactions related to shopping a day. I highly doubt he is also doing 160 in and out of forex and stock brokers.

Again, I'm talking about what traditional systems are used for compared to bitcoin and if you're going to tell me that only 1.3% of those are to buy stuff and 60% to cash in and out of forex I'm going to throw a stick in your bicycle wheels while you're speeding to catch thermos: PPPP



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June 03, 2019, 09:54:29 AM
 #38



Bitcoin as we know it is supposed to be utilized like money for everyday transactions but aside from this, just like the physical gold, it is mostly known as a store of value that can increase and decrease suddenly in a matter of some blinks of the eyes (well, literally and figuratively). Now, that bitcoin is on the rise, so does speculations though I see nothing wrong with this but the problem can be the imbalance.

It is estimated that "only 1.3% of economic transactions came from merchants in the first four months of 2019, little changed over the boom and bust cycles of the prior two years."

Personally, I would rather hold my bitcoin that spend it because I am looking forward that soon it can go beyond the $20,000 (or almost) reached in 2017. I am sure that am not alone with this mindset right now.

Is there really something wrong with this scenario for bitcoin?

I guess there is nothing wrong on this scenario since Bitcoin is not totally related to how economy is concerned. For my own point of view, Bitcoin has it's own positive impact on people but not in a countries economy.

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June 04, 2019, 07:14:35 PM
 #39

I spend my bitcoin. Why would I use fiat? I go from fiat to bitcoin not the other way around. I have no interest with banking. I tried using a banking system the other day and holy crap how can people say crypto is confusing? I didn't even know where to go and nothing was clear. I had to add all these weird numbers and wait days for a transaction to another bank. From my bank to someone who also has an a ccount with my bank costs $4 and it doesn't matter the amount you move. I had to wait 2 days to have the pay clear then only I was sent what I ordered. I did the same with bitcoin I paid within an hour and the goods were already checked off as paid and ready to ship. So not only do I pay less fee and have a faster transaction I get what I order faster and sooner. I also once needed a refund. Do you know how easy it was? They just asked me for a bitcoin address they can send to and they just did it. Hours later I received my refund. You just can't compete with that.

How much more simple can it be though? You open your wallet press send then copy paste the address to send to and press send.

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June 04, 2019, 07:40:23 PM
 #40

Yah more people actually do use gold than bitcoin, I know I said that before that more people use bitcoin but I was wrong. There is definitely more people using gold than bitcoin, but more people use bitcoin as a currency than gold.

You know what everyone uses tho?

TIME.
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