Bitcoin Forum
September 16, 2019, 05:35:15 PM *
News: If you like a topic and you see an orange "bump" link, click it. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Shower thought. Bitcoin ETF bad?  (Read 439 times)
QueenVera
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 291
Merit: 36

📱 CARTESI 📱 INFRASTRUCTURE FOR SCA


View Profile
September 10, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
 #41

Nope bitcoin ETF aren't bad for bitcoin instead it'll be the best next thing to happen to bitcoin as it'll be bringing in more publicity if it get approved. ETF will be bringing in the professional investors, giving bitcoin more credibility and  mainstream coverage. If you compare the advantage of ETF to the disadvantage, you'll realized why having it approved won't be a bad idea.

██████████████  CARTESI 📱 LINUX INFRASTRUCTURE FOR SCALABLE DAPPS  ██████████████
█▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇█
1581925394
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1581925394

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1581925394
Reply with quote  #2

1581925394
Report to moderator
1581925394
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1581925394

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1581925394
Reply with quote  #2

1581925394
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1581925394
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1581925394

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1581925394
Reply with quote  #2

1581925394
Report to moderator
1581925394
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1581925394

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1581925394
Reply with quote  #2

1581925394
Report to moderator
1581925394
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1581925394

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1581925394
Reply with quote  #2

1581925394
Report to moderator
squatter
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1060


STOP SNITCHIN'


View Profile
September 10, 2019, 10:53:49 PM
 #42

majority of the people will find it difficult to safe guard their private keys and people will find it useful to invest in ETF.

Do the "majority of people" use a broker service, though?  With the exception of some free shares I was given by my employer, I sure as hell don't, but that might just due to my distrust of traditional finance.  Because if people aren't using a broker, that's the only way casual investors can access an ETF.

The most interesting thing that could develop from an ETF is people investing tax-free through their 401(k)s. It wouldn't be available at first through most employer plans, but it could be done through self-administered accounts. Eventually, who knows? Maybe Blackrock and similar firms will be offering exposure through regular employer plans within a few years. If there's demand for it, they'll make it happen.

leftgirly
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 125
Merit: 3

Vvc


View Profile
September 10, 2019, 10:58:36 PM
 #43

The ETF agreement is just one of those initiatives that can easily help maintain the price of bitcoin at an appreciable level. Imagine a company guaranteeing your property without causing any financial commitment from your end. Basically, that is the idea behind ETF, I don't think this means a third party would be given the power  to control bitcoin on the market.
Leonardo7
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 13

📱 CARTESI 📱 INFRASTRUCTURE FOR DAP


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 01:35:16 AM
 #44

Not everyone definitely will subscribe to  ETF, but everyone has their choice to make, it entirely boils to an individual on how they use their money. I personally hate a third party holding my money for me, but still, if this will bring more liquidity to the market it's okay.

██████████████  CARTESI 📱 LINUX INFRASTRUCTURE FOR SCALABLE DAPPS  ██████████████
█▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇█
prix
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 752
Merit: 511


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 04:48:51 AM
 #45

The ETF is the way for users who cann't or don't want to understand the details of crypto. And for users of those countries where the crypto is in the gray zone or is banned (at least I know I person which wait ETF for that). In this case there will be no problems with the buying, nor with the selling, nor with the taxes.
GreatArkansas
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 770
Merit: 892


Telegram Bot - @BitcointalkProjectBot


View Profile WWW
September 11, 2019, 05:31:51 AM
 #46

The ETF agreement is just one of those initiatives that can easily help maintain the price of bitcoin at an appreciable level. (....)
But do you consider the being decentralized of Bitcoin? Like if you do that ETF things, you are actually buying a Bitcoin but not actually owning it, it's just like you will escape the actual trading and owning of Bitcoin.
And for me, I don't think ETF can drive the price or Bitcoin at an 'appreciable level'.

.
.
.
▄███████████████████▄
█████████████████████
████████████▀▀░░░░███
███████████▌░░░░░░███
███████████░░░░██████
███████████░░░░██████
████████░░░░░░░░░░▐██
████████░░░░░░░░░░███

███████████░░░░██████

███████████░░░░██████

███████████░░░░██████

███████████░░░░██████

▀██████████░░░░█████▀
▄███████████████████▄
█████████████████████
█████████████████████
████▀██████▀░░░▀▀▄███
████░░▀▀███░░░░░░▄███
████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▐████
████▄░░░░░░░░░░░█████
█████▀░░░░░░░░░▄█████

████▀█▄░░░░░░░▄██████

█████▄░░░░░▄▄████████

█████████████████████

█████████████████████

▀███████████████████▀
▄███████████████████▄
█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█████
███░░░▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄░░░███
██░░▄█████████▀▀▄░░██
██░░███▀▀░░░▀▀▄▄█░░██
██░░██▀░▄███▄░▀██░░██
██░░██░░█████░░██░░██
██░░██▄░▀███▀░▄██░░██

██░░███▄▄░░░▄▄███░░██

██░░▀███████████▀░░██

███░░░▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀░░░███

█████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█████

▀███████████████████▀
▄███████████████████▄
█████████████████████
█████████████████████
██████████████▀▀▀████
██████████▀▀░░░░▐████
██████▀▀░░░▄▀░░░█████
████░░░░▄▄▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄▐█░░░░░░██████

███████▌▌░░░░░▐██████

████████▄██▄▄░███████

█████████████████████

█████████████████████

▀███████████████████▀
.
fullhdpixel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 527


invest.matrixport.dev - Grow your wealth!


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 08:01:22 AM
 #47

Shouldn't the communty discourage the creation of anything that gives up the custody of Bitcoin to third parties?

Although it might be good for its price, would it be good for Bitcoin as a censorship-resistant hard money?
With ETF, we are just indirectly giving chance to centralization of cryptocurrency which we should really discourage because there won’t be any difference from all the system that we have on ground already if we still use cryptocurrency in a centralized way. The reason why we have been so all over bitcoin is because it gave us freedom and one sense of ownership to our money and to our transaction, so why on earth would we give that out to ETF.

Sometimes when I see how we encourage and push for ETF, I really wonder if some of us really understand what cryptocurrency is about and what decentralization stands for. Well, one thing that we know is that even if ETF is being approved, it would still not stop bitcoin from being a decentralized coin which is what people want the most.


  ████                                ███
  ███████                    ██████
  ██████████        █████████
  █████████████████████
██████████            ██████████████       ██████████
█████████████
              ████████          █████████████
████████████████                            ████████████████
████████████████████            ████████████████████
██████  ███████████████    ███████████████  ██████
██████          ████████████████████████          ██████
██████                ██████████████████                ██████
██████                      ████████████                      ██████
██████          █                ██████                █          ██████
██████          ████                                ████          ██████
██████          ████████                ████████          ██████
██████          ███████████    ███████████          ██████
██████              ████████████████████              ██████
██████                    ██████████████                    ██████
██████                          ████████                          ██████
██████████████████████████████████████████████



  ████▄▄▄                ▄▄▄████
  █████████        █████████
          ██████████████     
               ▀▀▀███▀▀▀         

  ████▄▄▄                ▄▄▄████
  █████████        █████████
          ██████████████     
               ▀▀▀███▀▀▀         

Grow Your Wealth Today!


  ████▄▄▄                ▄▄▄████
  █████████        █████████
          ██████████████     
               ▀▀▀███▀▀▀         

  ████▄▄▄                ▄▄▄████
  █████████        █████████
          ██████████████     
               ▀▀▀███▀▀▀         

Download Our
Investment App

for Android & iOS

████
██████
█████████
█████████████
████████████████
████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████g█████████
██████████g████████
████████g██████
██████g██████
██████████
██████
███

                 ████
                ████
                ▀▀
     ,▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▄▄▄▄▄▄
   o████████▄██▄████████
  ████████████████████
 d███████████████████
,███████████████████
`███████████████████
 ████████████████████
 █████████████████████
  ████████████████████████
   ██████████████████████
    ████████████████████
     `████▀▀  ▀▀██████
jseverson
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 712


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 09:31:32 AM
 #48

Sometimes when I see how we encourage and push for ETF, I really wonder if some of us really understand what cryptocurrency is about and what decentralization stands for. Well, one thing that we know is that even if ETF is being approved, it would still not stop bitcoin from being a decentralized coin which is what people want the most.

The thing is though, most Bitcoin holders will probably ignore any ETF despite clamoring for it. All it means for them is more money in the market, and Bitcoin being legitimized as an asset class to some extent.

It would then come down to context as to whether it's bad or not. Is it bad to hold? For experienced Bitcoiners, that's almost certainly a yes. Actually holding coins is going to be better for just about every purpose. Is it bad for the market? It could be, but the opposite is also very possible, if not more probable.

At the end of the day, no ETF is going to affect Bitcoin itself, so I'm personally not against it. It may be bad for corporations to stock up on huge amounts of coins, but they're free to do just that anyway, ETF or no ETF.

ololajulo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1162
Merit: 258


The Decentralized TCP/IP Internet Protocol


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 09:41:23 AM
 #49

I got reservation for the ETF, maybe we might not need it anyway. I thought it could help in this current market to bring new investment from institution but the recent ETF is not a true representative of what we want. Just like adding a document with crypto name in SEC file. They request for a good sum of money from investors with no chance for investors with bitcoin crumbs.

            ██
           ████ ▄▄▄
          ██  ▄██▄█
         ██ ▄█▀██
        ██▄█▀   ██
       ███▀      ██
     ▄██         ██
   ▄█
██            ██
█▀████    ▄▄▄      ███
▀▀▀██     █▄█▄     ████
  ██        ▀▀██▄▄  ████
 ███████████████▀▀███████
                   █▄█
The Blockchain Solution To Online Security & Privacy
50 Million
Global Users
!     ▐█████▄
     ███████▌
    ▐███████
 ███
████████████▄▄▄
▐██
█████████████████▄
███
██████████████████
 ▀
████████▀▀▀████████
 ▐███████    ████████
 ████████    ███████▀
█████████▄▄████████▀
██████████████████▀
 ██████████████▀▀
  ▀▀███████▀▀▀
LISTED ON               
bithum &
bithum Global
squatter
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1060


STOP SNITCHIN'


View Profile
September 11, 2019, 05:16:02 PM
 #50

At the end of the day, no ETF is going to affect Bitcoin itself, so I'm personally not against it. It may be bad for corporations to stock up on huge amounts of coins, but they're free to do just that anyway, ETF or no ETF.

It may not affect the protocol, but it can certainly affect the price. The trustee would issue and redeem shares based on market demand, meaning an ETF could conceivably lead the rest of the market due to arbitrage forces. The same goes for Bakkt or any other physically delivered bitcoin contracts. Plus, ETF shares can be short sold. When I strap on my tin foil hat, I can see some scenarios where Wall Street keeps a lid on bitcoin prices through these avenues, the same way they supposedly do with gold.

Wind_FURY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 869


Crypto-Games.net: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
September 12, 2019, 05:35:07 AM
 #51

The freedom to do what one wants with one's bitcoins necessarily includes the freedom to give custody of them to a third party. Some (such as those who are unwilling or unable to safely manage their own private keys) will find such an arrangement beneficial. And some will not benefit from such an arrangement, and choose not to use it. That's what freedom means.


But what about if Bitcoin custodial services, and exchanges, cartelize then form an agreement with each other that would be possible for them to censor transactions.

Should the community encourage everyone their right of "freedom" to let your Bitcoins in be in custody of a third party?

▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀████▄
████▀██████▀█▀██████▀████
██████████████████████████
▐█████▄███████████████▄█████▌
▐███████▄▄█████████▄▄███████▌
▐██████▀█████████████▀██████▌
▐███████████████████████████▌
▀██████████████████████▀
▀████▄████▄▀▀▄████▄████▀
▀███████▀███▀███████▀
▀▀█████████████▀▀
  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
|
★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀█▀█▄

 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄██▀▄█▄
██▀▄███
 ▀▄▄▄▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ █ ██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀▄▄▄▀▄
█▀▀▀▀▄█
 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀   ▀▄
█  █▄ █
 ▀▄██▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▀ █ ▀
▀▀▄▀▀
 ▀▄█▄
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
|
Kakmakr
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1918
Merit: 1406


WOLF.BET - Provably Fair Dice Game


View Profile
September 12, 2019, 07:29:44 AM
 #52

The way that Bakkt is doing it with the warehouse, might be the best way of doing it. A Bitcoin ETF must be backed by actual bitcoins and the ideal scenario would be for the owners of those coins to have sole access to the Private keys for those coins.

I can understand that institutional investors would want to avoid having the hassle of dealing with the safekeeping of coins and wallets and such, so they would pay a third party to do it on their behalf. The risk is much lower for them to invest in Bitcoin then and it is backed by actual bitcoins.  Wink

.WOLF.BET.▄███████████▄
███████    ████████████▄
███████    ███████   ▀██
██████████████████    ██
██    ██████████████████
██    ███████    ███████
█████████████    ███████
███████    █████████████
███████    ███████    ██
██████████████████   ▄██
██        ▀███████████▀
██
██

█████
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
  ███
█████


Wind_FURY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 869


Crypto-Games.net: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
September 12, 2019, 08:51:03 AM
 #53

The way that Bakkt is doing it with the warehouse, might be the best way of doing it. A Bitcoin ETF must be backed by actual bitcoins and the ideal scenario would be for the owners of those coins to have sole access to the Private keys for those coins.

I can understand that institutional investors would want to avoid having the hassle of dealing with the safekeeping of coins and wallets and such, so they would pay a third party to do it on their behalf. The risk is much lower for them to invest in Bitcoin then and it is backed by actual bitcoins.  Wink


Then the actual point. "Is allowing the custody of Bitcoin to institutional third parties, without thinking of the consequences, good or bad?"




▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀████▄
████▀██████▀█▀██████▀████
██████████████████████████
▐█████▄███████████████▄█████▌
▐███████▄▄█████████▄▄███████▌
▐██████▀█████████████▀██████▌
▐███████████████████████████▌
▀██████████████████████▀
▀████▄████▄▀▀▄████▄████▀
▀███████▀███▀███████▀
▀▀█████████████▀▀
  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
|
★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀█▀█▄

 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄██▀▄█▄
██▀▄███
 ▀▄▄▄▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ █ ██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀▄▄▄▀▄
█▀▀▀▀▄█
 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀   ▀▄
█  █▄ █
 ▀▄██▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▀ █ ▀
▀▀▄▀▀
 ▀▄█▄
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
|
mk4
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1155


Vires in Numeris 🔑


View Profile WWW
September 12, 2019, 08:53:51 AM
 #54

And for me, I don't think ETF can drive the price or Bitcoin at an 'appreciable level'.
I don't know why a lot of people think that a bitcoin ETF will make bitcoin rise in price either. Not saying that a price rise won't happen, because an ETF can give bitcoin a lot of legitimacy in the eyes of the masses, but it's just like any other open market whereas people can long or short bitcoin. In fact, it's also really possible that an ETF would drop bitcoin's price. In the end, it still, as always, boils down to supply and demand.

Then the actual point. "Is allowing the custody of Bitcoin to institutional third parties, without thinking of the consequences, good or bad?"
Could be either. ETFs will be used by people who doesn't care about financial freedom/sovereignty but only cares on the speculative aspect(whether bullish or bearish) of bitcoin.

figmentofmyass
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1133



View Profile
September 12, 2019, 09:25:24 AM
 #55

I can understand that institutional investors would want to avoid having the hassle of dealing with the safekeeping of coins and wallets and such, so they would pay a third party to do it on their behalf. The risk is much lower for them to invest in Bitcoin then and it is backed by actual bitcoins.  Wink

Then the actual point. "Is allowing the custody of Bitcoin to institutional third parties, without thinking of the consequences, good or bad?"

we're in no position to allow or disallow it, so it's a moot point. wall street wants it, and it's up to the SEC. and once they allow ETFs it's also not our business if people/institutions want to trust third parties. it's just like today with so many people using exchanges as wallets. it makes me shake my head, but what am i supposed to do about it?

people usually need to get burned a couple times before learning how important being your own bank really is.

Wind_FURY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 869


Crypto-Games.net: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
September 13, 2019, 08:12:24 AM
 #56

I can understand that institutional investors would want to avoid having the hassle of dealing with the safekeeping of coins and wallets and such, so they would pay a third party to do it on their behalf. The risk is much lower for them to invest in Bitcoin then and it is backed by actual bitcoins.  Wink

Then the actual point. "Is allowing the custody of Bitcoin to institutional third parties, without thinking of the consequences, good or bad?"

we're in no position to allow or disallow it, so it's a moot point. wall street wants it, and it's up to the SEC. and once they allow ETFs it's also not our business if people/institutions want to trust third parties. it's just like today with so many people using exchanges as wallets. it makes me shake my head, but what am i supposed to do about it?


Then, I bring forth the question, "Can Bitcoin be considered a "failure", if the majority of all coins were held by third-party custodians?"


▄▄█████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀████▄
████▀██████▀█▀██████▀████
██████████████████████████
▐█████▄███████████████▄█████▌
▐███████▄▄█████████▄▄███████▌
▐██████▀█████████████▀██████▌
▐███████████████████████████▌
▀██████████████████████▀
▀████▄████▄▀▀▄████▄████▀
▀███████▀███▀███████▀
▀▀█████████████▀▀
  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
|
★.★.★   8 GAMES   ★   WAGERING CONTEST   ★   JACKPOTS   ★   FAUCET   ★.★.★
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀█▀█▄

 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄██▀▄█▄
██▀▄███
 ▀▄▄▄▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ █ ██
 ▀▄▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀▄▄▄▀▄
█▀▀▀▀▄█
 ▀███▀
  ▄▄▄
▄▀   ▀▄
█  █▄ █
 ▀▄██▀
  ▄▄▄
▄█▀ ▀█▄
██   ██
 ▀█▄█▀
  ▄▄▄
▀ █ ▀
▀▀▄▀▀
 ▀▄█▄
  ▄▄▄
▄█ ▄▀█▄
██ ▄▀██
 ▀▄▄█▀
|
DooMAD
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2254
Merit: 1451


Leave no FUD unchallenged


View Profile WWW
September 13, 2019, 09:52:55 AM
 #57

I can understand that institutional investors would want to avoid having the hassle of dealing with the safekeeping of coins and wallets and such, so they would pay a third party to do it on their behalf. The risk is much lower for them to invest in Bitcoin then and it is backed by actual bitcoins.  Wink

Then the actual point. "Is allowing the custody of Bitcoin to institutional third parties, without thinking of the consequences, good or bad?"

we're in no position to allow or disallow it, so it's a moot point. wall street wants it, and it's up to the SEC. and once they allow ETFs it's also not our business if people/institutions want to trust third parties. it's just like today with so many people using exchanges as wallets. it makes me shake my head, but what am i supposed to do about it?


Then, I bring forth the question, "Can Bitcoin be considered a "failure", if the majority of all coins were held by third-party custodians?"



Well there's certainly a great deal of room for personal opinion on that one, heh.

If it did happen (and I find it pretty unlikely), I'd say it depends on how much trust it would require from those of us not utilising their services.  If they started leveraging their influence and pushing for protocol changes, I probably would consider it a failure.

figmentofmyass
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1133



View Profile
September 13, 2019, 05:52:36 PM
 #58

we're in no position to allow or disallow it, so it's a moot point. wall street wants it, and it's up to the SEC. and once they allow ETFs it's also not our business if people/institutions want to trust third parties. it's just like today with so many people using exchanges as wallets. it makes me shake my head, but what am i supposed to do about it?

Then, I bring forth the question, "Can Bitcoin be considered a "failure", if the majority of all coins were held by third-party custodians?"

probably yes. but IMO it wouldn't be a failure of bitcoin's design so much as a failure of humans to properly use it.

i still worry that bitcoin is before its time. people are so driven by convenience. the natural tendency for newcomers (and even some old hands!) is to use a third party custodian. i don't know how that cycle will be broken. maybe people can only grasp the importance of being their own bank by experiencing severe custodial losses first.

Ucy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 302



View Profile
September 13, 2019, 06:38:22 PM
 #59

The freedom to do what one wants with one's bitcoins necessarily includes the freedom to give custody of them to a third party. Some (such as those who are unwilling or unable to safely manage their own private keys) will find such an arrangement beneficial. And some will not benefit from such an arrangement, and choose not to use it. That's what freedom means.


People can actually do whatever they want with their bitcoins, including giving them to banks. This however has disadvantages and advantages...    There is the risk of complacency. Most people could begin to prefer the easy-to-use things in Crypto while the "real things" struggle to compete. There is also the possibility that real things will  become criminalized for operating outside the law



BIG WINNER!
[15.00000000 BTC]


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░▄███
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░
▀██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
▄████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄
▀██░████████░███████░█▀
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████
▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
franky1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 1627



View Profile
September 13, 2019, 09:05:24 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2019, 11:46:22 PM by franky1
 #60

the word "custodian" keeps popping up in this topic. and it makes me laugh

custodian is someone put in to look after something/someone. but doesnt own the property.
a school custodian is just the maintenance man
a police custodian just checks the arrested suspects dont escape and dont harm themselves or others
but does not own the person/asset.

in an ETF the company buys the bitcoins and its the companies property. they are not custodians. they are businesses with assets / collateral.
what ETF customers are buying are shares. they are not buying real bitcoins, just common stock shares

if WindFury was trying his hardest to get to a point. it would be worded more like
does offering common shares to the fiat financial industry to allow them to bet on the bitcoin price legitimately have more benefits than the risks of majority ownership of the circulation of bitcoin being owned by corporations.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!